Jay Dobyns was an ATF Special agent that infiltrated the Hells Angels in Arizona. He has a lot to say about the shameful revelation about the Operation Fast and Furious mission. Turns out he was one of the whistle blowers on the mission which is also referred to as Project Gun Runner. Vince Cefalu is another fired whistle blower from the ATF.
The problem is, this is not an Obama Administration thing. This is a recurrence of an ongoing problem that was highlighted in Iran Contra. Iran contra wasn't just selling arms to Iran. Iran contra was supplying the Nicaragua Contras with arms and bringing back huge shipments of cocaine to fund the program. That was Operation Watchtower which Al Martin explained about. Noriega was on the CIA payroll. They threw him in jail and made Oliver North a Fox News TV host. Go figure. Oliver North was in charge of everything that went in and out of Nicaragua at the time.
Judge Bonner complained about the CIA bringing a ton of cocaine into Florida. The CIA kept denying it over and over again until Judge Bonner went on 60 Minutes and documented everything. Then they finally admitted it but they claimed that was the only time and it was a mistake. We were trying to capture drug smugglers in an undercover operation by gaining their trust. That excuse was a lie. There was no tracking of the shipment and no subsequent arrests.
This drug smuggling has been going on since Vietnam. Just ask war hero Lt. Col. Bo Gritz. We won't even mention Mena, Arkansas. Much.
Dude, if you suffer from one flaw on this blog, it's an inability to resist the temptation to stray off message, and the habit of linking everything under the sun to CIA drug smuggling and Mena, Arkansas.
ReplyDeleteFirst off, it IS an Obama administration thing. ATF moved from Treasury to Justice a good while back, and if you think the Attorney General was never briefed on this, you're dreaming. If you think he never mentioned this to the president, you are dreaming 2x. Why do you have such a problem believing that when you apparently believe the CIA does nothing day in and day out but assist criminals in their ventures?
I finished the book you recommended. While I agree that it proves what it proves, I'm going to reference my earlier comment about people with that kind of ability to operate unsupervised (by the nature of the work they do, or are supposed to be doing) along with the personality components necessary to do it, and how they can get a long way down the wrong road before anyone really understands what is going on. That's not the whole story, as we both know, but that's not quite the same as "everybody knew, everything, all the way to the top, it was directed from the very top, and George Bush (both of them of course) was responsible".
Well, here's a fucking news flash, if he was then Barack Hussien Obama and Eric Holder (you know, the guy who dropped the charges against Black Panther types for standing around a polling station with clubs and intimidating white voters) are responsible for what happened on their watch also.
The truth would be better served if you were to point out that ATF has a history of running operations that range from questionable to outright criminal. "Fast and Furious" is just the most recent outrage. You have the CIA-Contra-Mena thing down flat, spend some time in another pasture and see how many innocent civilians' lives that that other agency has either ruined or taken from them. Manufacturing evidence, perjury, etc., you'll have a ball.
There's even a Canadian connection, who do you think has been doing inter-agency firearms enforcement consulting with the RCMP over the last 10-15 years? That's right...you've been allowing an American "law enforcement" agency who has killed it's own citizens over matters of a $200 tax compliance issue, to teach the RCMP some of the tricks of their trade. Never read about that in the Canadian media did you? ;)
I certainly agree it’s not just the CIA that has been trafficking drugs and arms. Al Martin talked about the Navy “Intelligence” being even more ruthless and as you say, this operation shows other agencies running operations that range from questionable to outright criminal.
ReplyDeleteYes it was connected to the Obama administration but it would be an obscene hypocrisy for any republican to use this case to trash Obama when the Bush administrations have been tied to this kind of activity for years. The problem with Obama is that he is not different enough from the Bush administrations just like Clinton. It’s not a matter of Obama being bad and the Bush’s being good. That is just plain blind naivety.
The point is, we are talking about the problems that result from drugs and guns in our community and yes I do also believe there is a Canadian connection. If the RCMP has any inter agency dealing with any of these corrupt agencies in the US that deal drugs and arms then they too are suspect.
That’s why I think it’s important to highlight how often the higher echelons of the RCMP have sabotaged serious organized crime drug busts in British Columbia. The pattern is clearly suspect. If we are going to address the drug and gun problem in our community, we need to find out why the RCMP keep sabotaging successful operations to shut it down.
Jay Dobyns is credible. Judge Bonner is credible. Lt. Col. Bo Gritz is credible. The drug and arms trafficking out of Mena Arkansas was very real. This needs to be addressed.
The Cartels reach out to corrupt US law enforcement;
ReplyDeleteEl Paso Times
EL PASO - Two former law enforcement officers allege that they cannot get anyone to investigate allegations that the Mexican drug cartels have corrupted U.S. law officers and politicians in the El Paso border region."
"Greg Gonzales, a retired Do a Ana County sheriff's deputy, and Wesley Dutton, a rancher and former New Mexico state livestock investigator, said that instead of arrests and prosecutions of suspects, their whistle-blowing activities have resulted only in threats and retaliation against themselves."
"Gonzales and Dutton allege that the FBI dropped them after "big names" on the U.S. side of the border began to surface in the drug investigations."
"We also had information on campaign fundraisers and parties in La Union that the cartel held for officials from New Mexico and El Paso. A lot of important people were at those parties, such as bankers, judges, and law enforcement officers."
"They also alleged that drug cartels have given big donations to politicians, which are unreported, to influence appointments of key law enforcement officers."
http://tinyurl.com/3pcpczs
“instead of arrests and prosecutions of suspects, their whistle-blowing activities have resulted only in threats and retaliation against themselves.” We are clearly seeing a pattern emerge.
ReplyDelete"That’s why I think it’s important to highlight how often the higher echelons of the RCMP have sabotaged serious organized crime drug busts in British Columbia. The pattern is clearly suspect. If we are going to address the drug and gun problem in our community, we need to find out why the RCMP keep sabotaging successful operations to shut it down."
ReplyDeleteAgree completely. The explanation ranges from individual and institutional incompetency to something decidedly more sinister. Given that B.C. is a place where actual criminals have little fear of consequence from the injustice system, why would the police fear consequences when they are protected by their badges (if they actually wore them, they often don't wear a name or even a number tape if they can get away with it) the "blue wall" they claim does not exist, and an institutional advantage in that police officers are believed to be in compliance with the law themselves unless proven beyond a shadow of a doubt that they are otherwise. That's a hell of an advantage. Add no civilian oversight and reporters that function mainly as a P.R. wing of the Police Service and it would be real hard for a cop to be proven to be involved in assisting organized crime. And yet it would be far from the first time.
When it looks, walks, and quack's like a duck, you can bet it's ass is watertight.
I always found it amusing that some Canadian cops view law enforcement down south as "the big leagues", because half of the shit they get away with in Canada would have them in prison down there. THEY are actually in the big leagues themselves when it comes to what they can get away with, suffering laughable consequence if any at all.
Indeed there are many ways corruption can enter the policing and politics of organized crime. Winning over a border agent or an airport employee. Getting information from a dirty cop or a police employee. This kind of corruption is from the bottom up but there is also corruption from the top down. How else can we explain when senior RCMP management stop large organize crime busts. The very fact that the US military is currently harvesting and cultivating opium in Afghanistan makes the whole issue of combating organized crime incredibly problematic.
ReplyDelete"The very fact that the US military is currently harvesting and cultivating opium in Afghanistan makes the whole issue of combating organized crime incredibly problematic."
ReplyDeleteSigh...once again you show a proclivity to drastically spin a situation as long as it supports your political/world view.
US troops cultivating opium=False. Come on, soldiers out in the poppy fields, toiling away? Not happening.
US troops harvesting said opium, patiently working their way through a field slitting bulbs and scraping the sap...also false. Give me a break here. If you'd ever been in the Canadian military, never mind the US Army, you'd know how stupid that sounds. Grunts are not gonna go work in the fields even if their commander was willing to commit career suicide by ordering them to. And the word on that would be out in a flash. I don't know how you think this would go, but here's the juice. Someone would file a complaint with their congressman by the end of day one. And it wouldn't be like back in the day when you write a letter and wait for weeks. Or they'd call a reporter. Two words, "SAT" & "phone".
You are aware that under the Taliban, opium production was at an all time low? They had the cultivation of it outlawed, which parenthetically changed once we invaded and they needed money. We discovered pretty much right away that to start burning/spraying poppy fields was to get the same people whose help we wanted to fight the Taliban to hate our guts. Kind of counterproductive. So, we did wind up protecting villages who are cultivating poppy in exchange for information about and co-operation against the Taliban.
Can you say that we are assisting people who are cultivating in their efforts? You could. And you have. But that's not really the truth is it?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dR3EZq1TKU8
The military are in the fields protecting the workers who are cultivating and harvesting the crop. They are directly involved and that is completely opposed to any type of mission promoting peace or democracy. The Taliban had the poppy production in Afghanistan reduced to a very low amount. We come in and all of a sudden Afghanistan has become the largest opium producers in the world again. That is a fact that needs to be addressed.
ReplyDeleteBrother, I'm a lot closer to this than you know. NO ONE IS PROTECTING THE WORKERS. This is you slanting the truth again. Our guys are out there patrolling the area looking for hadji. They are not out there to protect workers in poppy fields per se, they are out there looking for bad guys and oh, if the villagers are not completely on board with the bad guys and are targeted by them for talking to Americans or not paying protection to the Taliban, our guys will protect civilians as the need arises.
ReplyDeleteI'm assuming you have no issues with the military protecting civilians, even if those civilians happen to be working in their poppy fields. This may be "close to" but is in fact "different than" cultivating or harvesting. The protection factor is peripheral to the issue of why they are there at all.
When you say "directly involved" you mean to imply that they are out there working side by side with the local farmers as partners in the opium trade. That's not true, and you either don't understand that or don't care to observe the distinction.
You should know full well, unless you just want to paint it this way regardless, (and I truly think you do) that troops out there interacting with locals in a counter-insurgency environment ARE SUPPOSED TO BE DOING THAT. "Hey hadji, how you doing? Good crop this year? Wow, yes that is a healthy little poppy you got there. Beautiful field you have. Seen any Taliban lately?"
Get it? This does not mean they are "directly involved" in the drug trade. And if you didn't realize it before, you should now. But as I observed before, it's pretty apparent that it suits your world view to characterize it as you do, which is unfortunate.
I’m sorry but I disagree. They are protecting the opium crops. Since they went in the production of opium has dramatically increased. Those are the facts. Their bullshit story about if they don’t do it the Taliban will is a lie. Just like the Operation Fast and Furious. It is shameful corruption. It makes our efforts to curb illicit drugs on our end totally counter productive.
ReplyDeleteOf course production has increased, and I stated that initially. Apart from the fact that the Taliban are ALREADY doing it, the two basic reasons for that increased production are:
ReplyDelete1) The Taliban needs money to fight a war. They are no less two faced than any other religious fanatics. Or political "believers". And of course we have never heard of anyone using drug money to finance a war, have we? ;)
2) The farmers get a lot more money for opium base than they do wheat. (Or even weed, which they also grow a lot of.) And we, being the good guys and all, are not willing to execute them for growing it as were the Taliban.
Bear in mind that there is also a licit market for this product. Where do you think the base for morphine comes from? Oxy may be synthesized in a lab, but the old school opiate based painkillers used in surgery etc. in other parts of the world are not. Once you allow/need production for legitimate purpose, the elephant has his nose under the tent, as is being found with the medical weed thing.
Don't be sorry. It's pretty apparent that you and I are gonna disagree on things once in a while. It's all good.
We agree on the scourge of the 1%'ers and drugs, and the rest of their criminal activities. I think that alone is well more than enough to justify our continued interaction. And I also think that your effective coverage of them is the reason for the success of your blog. Some folks foolishly glamorize these guys, but deep down they also like to see someone shining a light on a cockroach.
I’m sorry but I don’t buy that. I think that is bullshit. There are many lies going around about Afghanistan. Handing over prisoners to be tortured is one. Claiming Bin Laden did 9/11 and was in Afghanistan is another. Protecting the Oil Pipeline and taking the contract away from Bridas and giving it back to an American firm is another.
ReplyDeleteThe Taliban had opium production greatly reduced and the Allies came in and made Afghanistan the worlds largest producer of Opium again. Saying that if we don’t do it the Taliban will is a lie as well as not being enough justification to do something that is morally wrong and illegal. If Afghanistan was still the world’s largest producer of opium when the Allies went in, they could argue that the Afghans will get mad if they lose their revenue. In reality the Allies increased their revenue with an illicit crop. Before the allies came in they were doing other things.
Dude, please don't tell me you seriously think 9/11 was the deliberate murder of 3000+ civilians by George Bush, Dick Cheney, and the neo-cons.
ReplyDeleteAlso, the Taliban themselves have been very open about Osama's presence in their country up until the point where they asked him to leave, post them getting thousands of their troops killed fighting the Northern Alliance/U.S. Special Forces.
The US didn't "make" Afghanistan the worlds largest producer, (again) unless you want to characterize (and I'm sure you do) the suspension of a death threat for growing it being the reason Afghan farmers then grew more of it.
I notice you did not bother to address the fact of legitimate opium use in the pharmaceutical industry for manufacturing morphine, etc.
Not everything is a conspiracy. A lot of it is just human nature interacting on a grand scale. And some things, like an airliner flying into a skyscraper, are exactly what they seem to be, namely an airliner flying into a skyscraper.
1) Yes I do believe 9/11 was an inside job just like Operation Northwoods proposed.
ReplyDelete2) The Taliban said what makes you think Bin Laden did 9/11? The US refused to answer. They wanted the Taliban to hand him over to a US Kangaroo Court and they didn’t comply.
3) The US did help turn Afghanistan back into the largest producer of opium in the world. That’s what happened. They were directly involved in that.
4) Not everything is a conspiracy. An airliner flew into the twin towers. Yet no plane hit the third tower and it fell into it’s own blueprint at freefall speed. Claiming that happened due to heat and fire is not scientific.
5) 9/11 is a completely separate matter from the CIA’s drug and arms trafficking that was directly tied to Bush Sr, Richard Secord and Oliver North. 9/11 has nothing to do with the fact that the ATF were giving the Mexican cartel’s guns and bringing back tons of cocaine in exchange. They weren’t doing that trying to bust the cartels. They were supplying one specific cartel whose politics they agreed with just like the Contras in Nicaragua.
6) Yes bikers are cockroaches for selling crack. So is anyone in the CIA, the DOJ, the Bush Administration, the Clinton Administration or even the Obama administration who sells crack. Just as the military is when they do it. When the military does what they are now doing in Afghanistan to promote the production of opium rationalized with the lie that if we don’t do it the Taliban will, that act pisses on real soldiers’ graves. When they do that the dead soldiers will not rest even though poppies grow in Flanders Field.
"The ATF were giving the Mexican cartel’s guns and bringing back tons of cocaine in exchange"
ReplyDeleteReally? Can I get some links please? I'm not trying to put you on the spot, if that can be documented I'd like to know.
Re: #4) I tend to think that a lot of damage was done to the portion of tower 3 that was underground by the first two coming down, remember that those two left a hole stories deep when they were done, the weight of those 2 towers coming straight down made a hell of a crater. Heat and fire from a full load of avgas burning off (enough to fly to California remember) accounts for structural steel failure in the first two but not in the third and I'm not aware that anyone says it did. It's not hard to see how a stories deep crater right next door could undermine the third, much smaller tower's ability to remain vertical. So we agree that heat and fire from an adjacent building would have a hard time doing this, I just don't think anyone had foreknowledge and blew the third one. Consider how many people it would take to lug a sufficient quantity of explosive in there to do it, and how likely they all are to keep their mouths shut about that when 3k people die. I'm sure we won't agree on that though.
I've googled it and I cannot find any record of anyone but you saying that anyone said, "If we don't do it, the Taliban will." Links for my own edification would be appreciated.
Once again, American troops are not out there growing poppy as you state. I've illustrated very clearly what is going on, the fact that you choose to believe otherwise does not appear to be anything I can help you with. I will tell you that I work with literally dozens of guy who have combat tours there and NONE of them helped grow any poppy. Their activities there are exactly as I've told you. They were too busy trying to survive their tours to take up gardening as a hobby.
Dude I really appreciate what you do to put hate on red & white, but some stuff there's just no talking to you about, you already know it all because:
1) You read it in a book.
and
2) It suits your world view.
I'm a bit disappointed in you because I would have thought a truth seeker such as yourself would understand that the moment you solidify the picture you have just closed your mind to any new information. And you really don't seem to want to hear anything you don't already believe. Especially if it conflicts with what you already believe.
Dude, if you want to start your own debunking blog feel free but this nonsense is getting ridiculous. The video clip which you posted said if we don’t do it the Taliban will. “Why are American troops helping Afghan farmers grow opium? This is controversial. The opium trade is the Taliban’s main source of funding. (Lie they stopped it when they were in power) Soldiers ignore and encourage the farmers. If they didn’t the farmers would blame the US for their poverty.” But they weren’t really growing opium any more until the Allies came in. So that argument is a lie.
ReplyDelete“If we secure them having a good harvest, now they’re gonna get paid for all their hard work and then we can deal with the trafficking afterwards.” Just like how they said they were going to deal with the cocaine trafficking after the CIA brought a ton into Florida. Just like they said they were going to deal with the arms after they sold it to the Mexican cartels but didn’t. It’s just another lie. The only time they report a bust is when the opium is coming from Pakistan or a Taliban source and not an Allied source. They don’t stop much opium after it leaves Kandahar.
The third tower did not fall due to heat and fire. That is just plain nonsense. Other buildings closer to the twin towers incurred more damage but still stood. A damaged building falls over. It doesn’t collapse into it’s own blueprint at freefall speed.
As for the cocaine coming back in Operation Fast and Furious we were discussing that in the other thread. They had a Boeing 747 jumbo-jet filled with cocaine. It was much more than a ton.
“According to court transcripts, Niebla was allowed to import “multi-ton quantities of cocaine” into the U.S. as a result of his working relationship with the FBI, Homeland Security, the U.S. Department of Justice and the Drug Enforcement Administration.”
http://www.borderlandbeat.com/2011/08/insider-cia-orchestrated-operation-fast.html
"The third tower did not fall due to heat and fire."
ReplyDeleteDid you even read what I said? I'm pretty sure that I agreed with you on this, that it seems improbable to me as well.
Thanks for the link. While it does say what you say it does, I'm not sure I agree that it's accurate. I'll offer two of the comments as outlooks I can agree with on this.
1)"I don't trust the source and neither should anyone else. These guys bash everything to do with the government. Nothing but conspiracy theorists. Like the U.S. government could really control what's going on in Mexico. They can't even control their own agencies."
2)"You got it right Texcoco. Those fuckers couldn't coordinate a garden party. Plus, none of those US govt agencies ever work together on anything. My favorite is the zetas work for the US govt to keep the cocaine flowing to keep the wheels of wall street well-oiled. What a load of shit. BB should title this mishmash "Conspiracy Theorists Gone Wild". BB and ardent love conspiracy theories. The more outlandish the better."
The last individuals' statement on inter-agency rivalry is spot on target. Something may happen where one or more are involved, but anyone who thinks these guys huddle up and co-operate smoothly on anything has no clue. Constant turf war between CIA and the FBI for instance.