Saturday, January 14, 2023

Gay Conversations in the LDS Church

Update: OK I had time to process it and summoned up the courage to tune in to the Sunday live stream of the fireside with two gay Mormons in Surrey. All I can say is mad harsh respect. It was very humble and truthful. It put things in a much different perspective for me. I just think giving them callings and expecting them to be celibate is unfair. I'm not sure what the answer is.


First I should say that I totally support gay civil marriage and I totally support the LDS amendment allowing gay civil marriage while preserving the right for various religions to choose not to perform gay marriage in their religious institutions. That's a fair balance between the freedom of religion and the freedom of association or shall we say orientation.

I dated a Mormon girl once who was struggling with her religious identity and some of the church standards. I said to her, if you want to be a Mormon, be a Mormon. If you want to be a Baptist, be a Baptist but don't live a lie. Needless to say she came unglued on me for saying that. Nevertheless, that is my position on the matter. If you want to be gay, be a good gay.

My current mission is not to covert people. It's to encourage people to be true to themselves. If you want to be a good Muslim, be a good Muslim. If you want to be a good Jew, be a good Jew. Just be honest and don't live a lie. All regions teach their adherents to be a good neighbor. Evicting Palestinians out of their homes is not Judaism. Wiping Jews off the face of the earth is not Islam. We all can do much better.

If the Mormon church starts ordaining gay bishops and starts performing gay marriages in their temples, that would be their right. However, it would be something that I am personally not comfortable with. Yet this whole charade it's OK to be gay as long as you're celibate is kind of ridiculous. That is an unrealistic expectation.

I went to school with a Mormon who ended up spending a few semesters at BYU. He said there was this huge secret gay community on campus. I was kind of surprised. He ended up finishing his education in New York. I served a mission. That's what I did for two years in Ireland. I followed the footsteps of Saint Patrick quite literally. It was an awesome experience.

We were working with two gay couples in Dublin. Two guys two girls. They were very intelligent, very fun, good people. After my mission I was going to go back to Dublin to open a chapter of the Guardian Angels. I was hoping to recruit them. They would have been awesome. I never went back, I started a family instead. Sadly, after I was transferred to another area, a subsequent set of missionaries met with them and basically said you're going to hell. I was really upset when I heard that. They were my friends. They were good people.

I had served in many positions on my mission - District leader, Zone leader, Branch President. A stalwart Norwegian and I were traveling missionaries for a couple of months and went on trades with almost every companionship in the mission. I remember sitting down with the new mission president telling him I think we have nonpracticing homosexuals in this mission. I guess I was kind of shocked. I thought if someone was gay they'd pick somewhere else to serve.

These two Gay Mormons speaking in Surrey this weekend seem like really nice guys. I suppose since it's so prevalent, something needs to be said. I'm just going to need some time to process it.

It's like this guy Andrew Tate. He's supposed to be a male influencer and self proclaimed misogynist. I didn't know what that meant. I had to look that up. Seemingly a misogynist is someone who hates women. That's what the fake news claims. You'd think if he was a male infuencer he'd like women. It's like that other male influencer Sydney Watson exposed named Jack Murphy. That guy was a wack job. Another fly by night snake oil salesman.

The whole idea of male influencer seems pretty insecure. My ex was big into Anthony Robins for a while. I was like I'm all for positive thinking and all but what has that guy done? He just makes money telling people how to succeed. Whenever he spoke his eyes were wide open. I thought it was kind of creepy. Yet it never ceases to amaze me how many views these fads get. I guess it's the mob mentality. Isaiah spoke about the mob "Which say to the seers, See not; and to the prophets, Prophesy not unto us right things, speak unto us smooth things, prophesy deceits." Don't tell us the truth, that's uncomfortable. Make us feel comfortable. Tell us lies.

There's a Mormon saying, I'll have to find the verse, that says if a true prophet came and testified of their iniquities, the people would cast him out and say that he is a false prophet. Yet if a false prophet came and said all is well, do what you want and God will save everyone not only would the people hail him to be a true prophet but they would pay him well. That is human nature and the mob mentality. So here we have this prophet telling Mormons to be nice to gay people. I can accept that. We should be nice to everyone. My question is, where does this road lead?

A lot of the Mormon therapists I've met are wack jobs and yes they pay them well. They aren't prophets, they aren't general authorities. Some of them aren't living the standards, yet they're telling everyone else how to live. Good luck with that. I'm all for LGBT. It's this whole alphabet soup thing I have a problem with. Non binary, minor attracted persons, he, she, they, it and theirs. It all gets pretty confused and extreme. He can become a she and she can become a he but a human being is not an it. You're either gay, straight or bisexual. You're male, female or trans.

Five Times August addressed this confused extremism in their funny song Outtayerdaminde. One of these gay Mormons speaking in Surrey today said he went on a mission hoping it would "fix" him and change his orientation but it didn't. I can accept that, totally. It's not my place to judge because that's not my kink. I don't know how that feels and with all due respect, I don't want to know. To each their own. All I'm saying is that I support the LDS proclamation on the family. At the time I thought it was a bit in your face aggressive but now I see the need for it. Everywhere we go the family is under attack. The fake news wants to destroy the family and limit population growth.

Oh but gay people are part of our family too. Can you not accept them? Of course we can. If my kids were gay would I love them? Of course I would. If my kids had a substance abuse issue would I still love them? Of course I would. I'm not equating homosexuality with drug abuse. I'm just saying we need to be mindful of where the road we are on leads.

When I served in the Young Men's presidency the Young Men's president asked me to be a Venturer scout leader and help him with some of the guys who were less than traditional. They didn't want to wear uniforms. The bishop's son was a graffiti artist so we had him design a logo we put on T-shirts. I taught them martial arts and we took them to serve at a food line in East Vancouver. One time the bishop's son saw something on our way and asked me to stop the car. He says I want to cover that tag. I know that guy and I hate him. I said guys from Langley are tagging the DTES? That is messed up. They were great guys we liked and enjoyed working with.

On Sunday morning we'd organize the guys into passing the sacrament. One morning one of the guys leans over and tells me he dropped acid that week. I rolled my eyes and say OK you sit over there, you're not passing sacrament, we'll have someone else take your place. We didn't freak on them we just taught them to be honest. If you're not living the commandments, don't pass or take the sacrament. It's that simple. They all went on to live happy and successful lives.

Many years ago, we had a LDS church counselor in Surrey that had an affair on his wife and ran off with one of his clients. His wife was a really nice person who later on remarried a really nice guy. All's well that ends well. My point is church psychologists are human like everyone else. You have to take what they say with a grain of salt and ask, is this advice good for me? Any therapist that follows Sigmund Freud is a wack job that should be avoided at all cost. They do more harm than good. Freud taught that women who had been raped were raped because deep down they wanted to be. That is mentally deranged. He was a cocaine addict that regularly had sex with his clients. If a man was a deviant he'd blame it in how the man was toilet trained by his mother. The guy was a freak as is anyone who still subscribes to his archaic ideas.

Although I'm inactive I remember hearing about a huge movement of apostates within the church that would attend church and trash President Monson. I though what the hell are you doing? Get a life. If you don't want to be a Mormon, don't be a Mormon. Be something else. Instead they were determined to change the doctrine of the LDS church. It doesn't work that way. That's what I meant when I wrote about the current prophet's wife Wendy Watson Nelson.

She posted a stunning picture of a cheetah close up she took on an African safari with her husband and the expression on the cheetah's face was concerning. She turned the picture into a profound analogy of being in a place of danger without realizing it at the time. She was very right. I took it one step further and said she still is in danger. A lot of bitter apostates within the church want to destroy her simple because she believes in the LDS Proclamation on the family.

Everyone has a right to their beliefs. Everyone. All these gay Mormons that want to change the church's doctrine on homosexuality should simply change their religion. It's that simple. The United church ordains gay ministers. That's a wonderful organization. I'm not saying walk away mad like the 1/3 did during the war in heaven. I left, I'm not mad. I wish them well and I support their right to their beliefs. I disagree with some of them but I support their right to their beliefs.

Years ago when we were working with the two guy couples in Dublin, we taught them the plan of salvation. I drew the short straw and it was my turn to teach the church's definition of the law of chastity and commit them to live that law. It was somewhat uncomfortable. They laughed at how awkwardly I danced around the subject and were smiling while they anxious awaited me to pop the question. Finally I got it out and said the church defines the law of chastity to be heterosexual relations within the bonds of marriage. Will you commit to this law?

Then with ear to ear grins they each looked me in the eye and said no. I respected their honesty. Without missing a beat I said OK how about this. Will you each commit to being faithful to the partner you are with? Three of them said yes, one wasn't sure and her partner looked at her in shock and I thought OK we better go now. I think you have something you need to discuss.

My whole point here is just be honest. You're not going to go to hell because you're gay. Christ said in my father's house there are many mansions. He also said as you sow so shall ye reap. If gay people do good, they will be rewarded accordingly. If they do evil, the same thing will happen as if they were heterosexual. Gay people are welcome to attend the LDS church. Just don't take the sacrament. I don't. Simply because I'm not willing to commit to living each and every principle. When the sacrament passes me by, I feel the spirit.

When you take the sacrament you are renewing the covenants you made at baptism. If you're not willing to renew those covenants, then don't. It's that simple. The church is all about service. The world is full of other opportunities to serve. As Lao Tzu said, it's better to light one candle then curse all the darkness. The struggle we all now face is between freedom and slavery. Surely that is a cause we can all unite on regardless of your sexual orientation.

Ya see we're fighting a spiritual war on several different fronts. First we have Communism lying to us trying to turn us into slaves of the state. There are no gay rights in communism because in communism no one has any rights. Next we have China trying to weaken our society by destroying the family on ticktock and through our media. Kind of like how England tried to destroy them through the opium wars. We need to educate kids on the harmful effects of drugs without taking away their free agency. Harm prevention isn't supposed to be harm promotion.

We also have Satan trying to deceive us and destroy our happiness. If the purpose of life is to find happiness, then temptation is something that will take us away from that happiness. I remember seeing that movie Fatal Attraction. This guy who was happily married gets seduced by a hot blond. Only she turned out to be a complete mental case. That movie scared the life out of me. It clearly illustrated that wickedness never was happiness.

When I think of Ellen DeGeneres I take a look at Portia de Rossi and I'm like yeah I get it. Portia is very pretty. I'm sure there's more to their relationship then that since Ellen has a great sense of humor but when you see them together it's not hard to understand. The bottom line is like any parent, you want your kids to be happy. That's all you want.


  1. Sorry, but what is this post about, exactly?

    1. I'm going to expand on it a bit. I just needed some time to process my shock.


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