Monday, February 13, 2012

The Association of Independent Grow ops

Looks like it's time to form a Union or at least an Association of sorts. Hells Angels being accused of ripping off their own growers? A Hells Angels grower recently found dead in a ditch? Hells Angels accused of using violence to take over independent grow ops? Another Surrey guy caught speeding outside Kamloops with a gun and a cell phone jammer. We won't know his name until April 23rd but Haney runs Kamloops. I think it's time growers pull together and form an association.

Obviously, there are two ways of doing this. Some will ask for help from the UN or the Rock Machine. Those enforces will shoot their enforcers until everyone is left blind or at least shot. The other way is to go legit. Get a permit for a medicinal grow op and just grow for people with a prescription. Once you do that, you can call the police any time the Hells Angels threaten to take over your grow. Since their threats entrench their criminal organization status, every time they make a threat, the police need to seize a clubhouse or piece of their property. Cause and effect. The seizure of the Victoria clubhouse has been upheld. Time to take the next step.

Growers have a right to be independent. The Hells Angels greed and injustice has gone too far. When the Hells Angels use violence to take over existing grow ops, they ruin things for everyone. A free market is a free market. Some people say they like to buy pot from the black door because they always give you a fair price and it's always a good product. If that was the case, then that should be enough to drive their business. Customers would go to them because they could be trusted. Customers would be happy with the price and the product. Back in the day, customer service mattered.

Now they just use extreme violence and beat the tar out of anyone selling or they shoot their competitors. That is not a free market. It opens the door to a whole world of deranged violence driven by greed. It's time to rat out the real rats and stop the deranged violence.


  1. There's already lobbying going on. It's just that most medical marijuana growers are too freaked out to provide personal information because of the potential of being robbed. It's not just the club burning honest folks either, there are turds of all stripes out there looking to get over on anyone who presents an easy target.

    No guild or union of growers would be effective in terms of providing growers security without hiring professional lobbyists and making copious donations to key parliamentary players. With big pharmaceutical companies as political competition, the little guy doesn't stand a chance unless the feds lift the prohibition of marijuana for adult use entirely. Big pharma doesn't want that, because they lose out on the potential to earn. Organised criminal groups lose for the same reasons.

    As for your two proposed solutions to ending grow rips by organised criminal groups:
    The UN and the Rock Machine aren't like the A-Team... If you have a problem, if no one else can help, and if you can find them, there's very little chance you'd be able to hire them. While there are individuals in both organisations who might likely do murders for hire, Joe Fiveplants on a medical grow license is unlikely to want to find him or herself beholding to either group for the purchase of said services.
    The entire theory is almost as nutty as Manson's plan to start a race war by killing white folks and blaming it on black folks. I realise you probably intended to present a little nutty for contrast with the following paragraph, but I know there are tools who will read it and nod their heads in agreement. To prevent a rash of 411 calls and google searches for local gang chapter telephone numbers, you might choose to amend this post with a disclaimer.

    The other proposal is nuttier than a turd, and cornier than, well, another two turds. Whenever I read this blog, I see post upon post of commentary about criminal violence which goes well beyond issuing threats. To suggest that the sole weapon possessed by organised criminal groups is threats, and based on that, legal growers should feel safe reporting violent extortionists isn't just kooky, it's dangerous and irresponsible. These people are killers. Put one in jail and you'll have two of them show up to give you a dirt nap.

    If the police wanted real change, they could urge the federal government to start regular inspections of grow sites to ensure growers aren't going beyond their plant limits. A legitimate five to fifteen plant permit isn't going to be viable as a commercial venture (Health Canada suggests a dose of 1-3 grams per day, @ 5 plants per gram). Paying an employee to perform inspections would be much more cost effective than related policing . I've said it before, and I'll paraphrase it again: The police know who the drug dealers are. They know who the enforcers are. I know some of these people too. I know them well enough to say that if the police chose to follow these people for a few days, they'd quite easily accrue enough evidence to successfully prosecute in about ninety per cent of the cases.

    You report about well known criminal figures who own big houses and fancy boats and cars all the time. I can assure you that these folks didn't get to that point in their criminal careers while flying under the radar. Cops will say that sure, they know who they are, but without sufficient evidence nothing can be done. I'd counter that with first hand knowledge that sufficient evidence is everywhere, and can be gained legally. I can't for the life of me begin to fathom why there aren't more significant arrests being made. Either serious crimes units are systemically incompetent, or they're turning a blind eye. Neither reality is especially pleasant. Making a complaint at risk of life and limb to an organisation which exercises either of the aforementioned policies is nonsensical.

    Legalise. Tax. Regulate.

    1. I don’t think legalization is the answer. Running a stripper agency is totally legal and the Hells Angels have used violence to take over that industry in BC. Then they go and put an absolute idiot like CJ Spoon in charge of supplying Tbarz with strippers. It makes ya wonder where their head is at.

      So if pot was legal would that stop the Hells Angels from using violence to take over all the grow ops? I don’t think so. As much as my idealistic post submits that we should form a grow op union of sorts, supplying medicinal marijuana legitimately and removing that part of the business from the Hells Angels control, that too is wishful thinking.

      Even if a medicinal grow op has a legitimate permit to grow pot, do you think they would really call the police and tell them the Hells Angels have threatened to kill them? It is unlikely. Just like how all the stripper agencies in BC who were beat up or threatened, they wouldn’t report it to the police out of fear of retaliation.

      I’m not sure what the answer is but I do know, despite the rage and denial that coming clean and letting people know what’s really going on and letting them know how bad it really is, that is the first step to changing it and fixing the problem once and for all.

  2. "Either serious crimes units are systemically incompetent, or they're turning a blind eye"

    It's both.

  3. Law of supply and demand, K. If everyone has equal access to cultivate, it relieves the market of demand. Even if marijuana was regulated in the same way as liquor, industrialised growers would easily out-compete any criminal organisation in terms of bulk production to cost ratio.

    I don't see any sense in the argument that the club would readily take over either. The sex industry has been a traditional source of income for crooks since long before the Angels or Al Capone (who made most of his money selling prohibited alcohol). The club's not so much interested in the stripping off of clothing as much as they want the revenue from the related prostitution. Citing the criminal exploitation of one illegal industry to negate the potential for legalisation of another isn't really fair game.

    What makes it anyone else's right to criminalise otherwise law abiding citizens for making choices that have zero effect on anyone else, albeit their sense of moral outrage? As long as marijuana and prostitution are illegal, rats will get fat while good men die.

  4. I believe the legalization of pot would eliminate the HA's grip on the industry for several reasons.

    1) The gov't could have their own licensed commercial operations, and with any sign of HA involvement they pull the license. Applicants would have to be thoroughly screened by officals. Crops are audited, and controlled.

    2) Consumers (like in Europe) would go to gov't stores to buy their weed. There would be no need for a black market. Why bother? Prices would probably be alot less if it was legal.

    3) People could potentially grow their own marijuana legally. Anything over 6 plants is a by-law infraction.

    It would be the best thing for the economy, and ease the court problem, and prison costs.

  5. "So if pot was legal would that stop the Hells Angels from using violence to take over all the grow ops? I don’t think so."

    And you would be completely correct. Violence or the threat of it is the only tool in their toolbox. They only have to employ it periodically. Doing so creates fear, and that alone will gain them their end most of the time. The only antidote to this is "will to resist". Yet that will alone is useless in the absence of actual ability, and actual ability comes down to one thing: a firearm. Preferably plural.

    The problem is, you live in a society that has been purposefully disarmed by politicians who would rather you not have them for much the same reason as the Hells Angels do not want you to have one. A man with the ability to resist another man's (or group of men's) intrusion into his life is a different man than one who does not. The latter is much more easily ruled, or taxed, or victimized, by whoever, and is more easily cowed by threats than a man with the will to fight back. It really is that simple, and it tells you everything you'll ever need to know about people who want everyone disarmed. By this they have told you their view of you, and their plans for you.

    Why do you think the "Green Team" operates in daylight hours only? Breaking someone's door down at night, even if you're shouting "Police", is an excellent way to get shot by those growers out there who have not quit the industry because of the threat of an HA backed grow rip team. Grow rip teams use those cheesy windbreakers that say "Police" or "RCMP" on them and try to impersonate the Police long enough not to get shot and gain the upper hand against a grower who has no problem shooting them but would never dream of shooting a cop.

    Note to such growers: As can be seen by the equipment recovered by the RCMP from a grow rip team who were headed out to a job near Salmon Arm, these guys wear body armor. While a handgun can be carried with you all the time and is on you when you need it, you'll need a center fire caliber rifle to deal quickly and effectively with someone wearing a vest which will only stop pistol calibers and shotgun pellets. Semi auto is best, for rapid follow up shots. In Canada, your best, cheapest and most available choice is the SKS rifle. Under $200. Anyone without a criminal record can buy one, and there are a few floating around out there that were never registered when the long gun provisions were enacted. Only holds 5 rounds (thank you Parliament and Gamil Rodrigue Liass Gharbi, AKA Mrc Lepine) but if you keep your head and get centered hits you should be OK. Rarely more than 5 targets anyway from what I have read of such incidents over the years. And they can be reloaded fairly quick. Get some 10 round stripper clips and cut them in half. Never "single load" a round into the chamber by itself with this gun, it can fire when you let the bolt go forward if you do this. This will never happen when you let the bolt go forward stripping and chambering a round from the magazine.

    Practice reloading. Canadian soldiers fought three wars with a bolt action rifle with a 10 round magazine that was reloaded 5 rounds at a time from 5 round strippers, so you are in good company and well equipped since the SKS is semi auto.

    A crossbow (or a regular bow) will also penetrate a vest with no problem. Follow up shots are slow with most designs which are built for hunting where you will only get one shot before your quarry runs away. I recommend an older design, the Barnett Commando, which can be re-cocked and a new bolt placed on the rails more quickly than any other. 10 seconds no problem. It's also quiet and does not betray your position as readily as a gunshot.

    Even a man who is violating the law by growing pot has the right of self defense against criminals who are themselves armed, and willing to do you violence. Equip yourselves suitably and be prepared to do bad things to bad people.

    1. holy shit, trailrunner...

      I get the feeling you don't get out of the bunker much unless it's to check your trap lines or head into town to get fixings for reloading rounds.

      The last thing people need to do is arm themselves. The fact that it's come to this indicates that government policy is failing to serve the citizens who've elected them.

      Women didn't always have the vote. You used to be able to own another person. Alcohol was once outlawed in the US. Things change.

      Writing a letter to your MLA or MP urging them to get onboard with 4 ex-mayors of Vancouver, 3 ex-attorneys general, and a large segment of the population to legalise marijuana seems like a more viable solution than taking up arms. More violence is certainly not the answer. Looking at Mexico's current condition should be all the proof you need of that.

    2. I was gonna say that the whole point of smoking pot is to relax and calm down. Pot smokers are generally nonviolent by nature. Encouraging growers to go for head shots because these low lifes wear body armour might work in the States but in Canada we have a ways to go with regards to lawful protection of persons and property in the home. Typical stereotype is that a burglar trips while breaking into your home and sues you for damages. Although I'm all for letter writing, I think it's more a matter of acting at the ballot box because some people just aren't listening. Yet again I'm not sure legalization will be the magic wand to end the violence. People still have to report it. That seems to be the primary concern. Looking at the mess in Mexico with their drug war is indeed telling especially since government agencies were supplying one of the cartels with guns and bringing back tons of cocaine as payment. I certainly don't support the legalization of crack and when government agencies get involved in the cocaine trade, something serious is very wrong.

  6. And you believe a change in government policy will stop HA from taking over grow ops? Really? Which "more violence" are you taking about? Is that how you see defending yourself from an armed attack which brings the "risk of serious injury or death"? So, doing that equals "more violence" which is not the solution? I have news for you my friend, that is EXACTLY the standard the police are trained to for use of deadly force. Ask all those people HA have had killed if they'd rather have had a gun or not. I'd invite you to investigate the number of grow rips where the grower was able to deal effectively with the situation by any other means. I'll bet that guy who got duct taped to a chair and thrown off a bridge wishes he'd had one. Oh wait, he can't wish anything, he's dead.

    As I recall there was a situation out in Abbottsford years ago where 3 guys broke in, all 3 got shot, none fatally, man successfully resisted a robbery attempt. Oh, that's right, I forgot, you guys are into the shit the police tell you, "don't resist, you might get hurt". Interesting how they apply that idea for armed robbers as well as themselves. Something basically wrong there. "Give in to the fear", yeah, that's the spirit which made Canada great. Guess those times are gone.

    I do not recommend head shots generally. The head moves around a lot and is a much more difficult target than the body. Aim "centre mass", but if there is a good chance that you're likely opponent will be wearing a vest, make sure you have something which will penetrate it. What people generally refer to as body armor will only stop handgun bullets and shotgun pellets. A centre fire rifle will defeat it.

    "Taking up arms", jeez. Nothing wrong with being relaxed, be as relaxed as you like until it's time not to be. Shaun my friend, you're the perfect citizen everyone who's in government wants you to be, you think all that's needed is a change in policy and everything will be hunky-dory. Good luck with that.

  7. I'm far from being a model citizen, and I've owned several guns in the past. I can't be bothered with the heat or the grief that owning illegal weapons brings me any more, so I've chosen not to own them any longer.

    I am all about owning weapons, should you want to. I have no problem with it. I do draw the line when it comes down to the whole "the government wants to oppress you by taking your weapons" mode of thinking. I've seen that shit spouted by one too many survivalist types, and it's just not the truth. We have restrictions on certain types of weapons to reduce the ease with which criminals can access them. I'm not saying it's that hard to locate a black market gun, it's just a lot more expensive. I once paid 1500$ for a .357 Ruger Blackhawk, more than double retail price, and that was a throw away piece. Imagine what a nice Karh .40 would cost, and the prices go up and up. If we didn't have those restrictions, gun crime would likely be a lot worse because broke-assed would be gangsters would have access.

    Now, say some guys kick in my door, and I double tap each of them square in the chest with a loaded SKS I just happen to have handy. At minimum, I'm gonna end up with some weapons charges, at worst, being charged for homicide. Not to mention, I've just capped three bad dudes, who presumably have some bad friends that I may end up dealing with.


    Three guys kick in my door. I comply with them and give them what they want. They might rough me up a little, take what they came for, then leave.

    I can tell you right now, there's no amount of weed or cash that I'd trade for a 25 year sentence, or a war with an organised crime group. It's simple accounting. Go ahead and be a hero if you want, but you won't be able to get your Soldier of Fortune magazine subscription when you're doing life in max.

  8. Well, the gunshot sound signature is the reason I threw the crossbow thing in there, I figured that would be easier for the average reader to digest than "Homebuilt Silencers 101". That said, you would be surprised how often a single gunshot inside a closed building (most especially a closed room within a closed building) will go unrecognized as such even by people within the structure, never mind inside their own next door. Of course that dynamic winds down according to the number of subsequent shots though....

    You aren't getting 25 years for a (involuntary) manslaughter case, especially if it's self defense. Especially in Canada. Most especially in B.C..

    Suggested course of action in the situation as you describe it is this. Before the last shot's echo's die, wipe the gun, drop it, grab your "go" bag (Oh, you don't have one? Bad on you.....)and exit the building by the method/route which offers the most concealment from a potential observer. Don't return for a while. Like the next day. (Or at all. I would think that you wouldn't have your name on a place you were growing in) When you do their are two possibilities. A) Police everywhere. B)Police nowhere to be seen, 3 dead assholes stinking up your house. You seem intelligent enough to play out your own hand from there, so I'll pay you the compliment of leaving how you'd do it up to you.

    I don't read SOF.

    1. Has anyone heard of terry bohn..... I am hearing some serious millions he has made growing for the bells angels..... He is the over lord I believe...... Very low profile guy....but I estimate 1 of the richest grower / associate in Canada.

    2. Powerful you have become Dooku, the dark side I sense in you.

      Time to change that username to putmeaway. Did you find out about Overlord Bohn through the implant in your tooth?

      And K, if you're vetting comments for threats, you might also want to add libel and slander to the list, unless you have no fear of legal liability. Not only is this retard Yoda sound alike hacking on the bells angels, he's naming an easily searched name and making baseless accusations. Say, you two don't work together, do you?

    3. He is quoting a source and asking a question. Nothing wrong with that. I haven't heard that name myself but I am interested if anyone else has.

  9. You know I thought this would of been a good tool to get the Terry Bohn name out there....... Like I said he is a very low profile guy and the stories I hear are from a VERY reliable source ....... He was the owner of the house in abbotsford the year of THEE biggest plantation bust in B.C.
    Some how he got away with it because the renter took the punch.
    Anyway I can go on and on about this guy but if is going to fall on deaf ears and immature slander I will just take what I know and stfu. Thanks.


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