Friday, August 17, 2012

Punk Rockers Storm Church in Russia - Update



On the international scene, Russia slips back into the Dark Age after three members of a Russian punk rock band were sentenced to two years in prison after speaking out against Vladimir Putin. They were charged with hooliganism and religious hatred. I don’t know how a punk rock band got permission to play in a Russian cathedral but free speech is essential in any democratic society.

Lately there have been many protests in Russia against Vladimir Putin accusing him of voter fraud. Singing a "punk prayer" pleading with the Virgin Mary to save Russia from Vladimir Putin is not promoting religious hatred. Tyranny is. My only caution to my comrades in Russia is when they call for a revolution, be careful where that leads. You need a constitution guaranteeing democracy and free speech, not a Manifesto abolishing it.



Update: OK I’m going to have to weigh in here. I guess things aren’t always what they appear. Storming a church and holding a punk rock concert in it without permission is disrespectful. Many find punk rock disrespectful at the best of times. The lyrics in their red square performance were off the hook. Disrespectful is their mission statement. To highjack a church and force people there to listen to that is wrong.

Calling upon Mother Mary to be a feminist and support gay pride is an interesting concept. Yet someone will say I believe in gay pride while someone else will say I don’t believe in that. Likewise, someone will say I believe in God while someone else will say I don’t believe in that. We are all entitled to our own beliefs. How we express those beliefs can be right or wrong. Or in this case appropriate or inappropriate.

When I look at the antics of Pussy Riot, I have to say I don’t support them. Even the name pussy riot is offensive. What are you trying to do bring back Caligula and have that kind of a riot? Standing anywhere and screaming let’s have a riot is in itself problematic. Why do you want to a have a riot? There are laws framed against the instigation of a riot which would include vandalism and looting.

Free speech is a sacred right. Yet that doesn’t mean we have the right to prevent others from having their free speech or in this case worshiping who, how or what they may. Perhaps the reason Pussy Riot stormed a church is because when they performed in Red Square no one came to listen to them.

I saw this post in another forum and wanted to copy it before it was lost:

"Would you believe that Pussy Riot would be allowed to sing an anti-Putin song in the Red Square and get away with it? In fact, that's what they did on 20th January 2012. On the Red Square in broad daylight they played a nicely rousing song about 'KGB bitches' and 'Putin who is pissing his pants', and there was press around to take photos and video: http://pussy-riot.livejournal.com.nyud.net/8459.html and http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yqcmldeC7Ec

After that Red Square performance they were briefly detained by the police and then released. No trial, no conviction, no world outrage... nothing. So, next time their organizers have chosen another venue to make sure there would be headlines "Jailed for singing an anti-Putin song"... That's how public opinion is manufactured."

14 comments:

  1. They didn't get permission.

    I don't know why anyone is surprised about this. Gee, who would have thought that Putin, a career KGB agent, would have any commitment to freedom or democracy? HE'S ONE OF THE BAD GUYS!!

    These chicks are lucky, (if we can say that) in that 2 years is a lot less than they would have got under the pre-1990 Soviet regime, but I don't think they'll be smiling for long. The Russian prison system has a deserved reputation for brutality. If one of them didn't have Canadian landed immigrant status and wasn't married to a dual Russian/Canadian citizen (in other words, no foreign ties to be concerned about) they might have got a lot more.

    I expect it will be an interesting 2 years.

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  2. These radical feminists did not get permission. They interrupted a religious service (Holy Sacrifice of the Mass) to demonstrate publicly their disdain and disrespect of a valid Church.

    In essence, it was a mere publicity stunt.

    Try doing something like this in Canada at a synagogue and see how much jail time you would get?

    Try doing this in a mosque in any country and see if you get out alive.

    The mass media is giving it the usual spin to promote their agenda - same as the pop-"stars" who are whining and pandering to the media.

    In communist Russia most Churches were used as museums and the clergy and faithful openly discriminated against, harassed and persecuted. Research communist treatment of Christians and the clergy (start with the starvation of millions of Ukrainian Christians after world war two and work forward in time from there).

    As for freedom of speech, Russia has as much as in Canada. However, there is some respect for God there.

    Constitutions do not guarantee anything - they are only as binding as the whims of the select few who have been granted the exclusive permission to interpret what they want (ie Supreme courts in Canada and the USA). The interpretations wax and wane based on the partisanship of the appointments.

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    1. "As for freedom of speech, Russia has as much as in Canada"

      Hahahaha...really?? Name the last Canadian journalist murdered by "persons unknown" for writing exposes on government corruption.....oh, right, there never has been....

      If there's one thing Russia has little real history of, it's freedom of anything, never mind speech.

      Your "dezinformatsia" has no power here, the bullshit flag has been thrown....

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    2. Gary Webb and Danny Casolaro. Oh, they were American. My bad.

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    3. At least there is some doubt (not in your mind of course, and who knows, you may be right) about those two.

      I was talking about Russians who were either shot down in the street or kidnapped and found murdered later. So I stand by my point about Russia.

      See, the thing about suicides, faked or otherwise, is they just don't send the same message as a gruesome killing that is known to be such.

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    4. I agree Russia has a long history of oppressing free speech. I agree the KGB were bad. Very bad. I just think the CIA are no better. At least Stalin would send someone to a death camp for expressing their opinion. The CIA will just kill them dead and make it look like a suicide. It wasn’t just two cases. Fahmy Malak who bill Clinton supported in Mena, AK was a crooked corner who was caught falsifying death certificates ruling many murders as suicides.

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  3. If they didn’t get permission and just started playing punk rock in a church, then that would have been very disrespectful regardless of what they had to say. Performing on the street in public would have been different. Interrupting a service whether it be in a church mosque or synagogue would be disrespectful. You are correct that judges can misinterpret constitutions but not having one is even worse. Communist Russia driven by the manifesto had no democracy or free speech. That is something we need to avoid.

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  4. WM: "These radical feminists did not get permission. They interrupted a religious service (Holy Sacrifice of the Mass)..."

    Another Putin web-scouring internet thug. Russia pays thousands of poor people to look thru the web, and counter any anti-Putin messages with their own PR.

    This guy calls himself a western name, but knows precisely the exact type of Russian Orthodox Church service?? NO western-er would know & remember that exact Service; that Church doesn't operate anywhere BUT Russia. He outed himself, because these folks don't understand the west and aren't intelligent.

    Another anti-Putin post will attract the same attention from the same person, perhaps calling himself John Doe.

    Here's a typical example of the same, after a post I put in an English-language Kiev newspaper;

    kpxoxol Aug. 11, 2012, 9:12 a.m.

    "LOL powerless and ignorant orange fool - the reason the three wenches are going to get REDUCED sentence of 3 years instead of the usual 7 years is because Putin expressed opinion that the 7 years is too harsh punishment."

    "The three retarded sissies are accused of hooliganism not by Putin but by MILLIONS of members of the Russia Orthodox Church who are offended by the arrogance of the west-paid turds to desecrate the altar of a symbol of their beliefs."

    "You obviously are too illiterate and too stupid to know why actually the three west-paid stogies are on trial, but being brainless orange it figures, heh, heh, heh."

    http://tinyurl.com/8jop3qw

    *Orange* refers to the hated colour democratic revolutions in Ukraine, etc..

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    1. "west-paid", huh? LOL. What a chump....

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    2. Hmm, I guess I should hide on the Internet by using some type of made up nickname, 'Freddy'. That would obviously make what I write Instantaneously valid ...

      What makes something valid is the objectivity of it. Use a critical thinking lens to start along with philosophic methods of determining what is valid like the Socratic method and St Thomas Aquinas' scholastic.

      As for knowledge of Orthodoxy just google how many Orthodox Churches there are in any Canadian city. How many are in the greater Vancouver area alone?

      Here's a bit of advice, "Make sure mind is gear before mouth is put into motion.". Or in your case fingers (on the keyboard).

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    3. "What makes something valid is the (truth) of it"

      There, fixed it for you.....

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  5. I agree there are disinformation trolls on either side of an issue. Obviously the trolls you cite are over board. I suppose the question is pretty clear cut. Did they have a permit or permission to hold a punk rock concert in a cathedral or did they just all of a sudden decide to take over a cathedral and hold a punk rock concert in it. If that's the case the concern isn't what they said but what they did. If they want people to respect their opinion they have to respect the opinions of others.

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  6. I note *Wesley Myers* has zero comment on the actual issue at hand, (the Pussy Riot business), which is not over, as Putin's thugs are hunting supporters of the group to put in their
    GULAG camps. Putin is a true believer, who prospered with the Communists' KGB secret Police, of which he was an important member.

    Instead of attacking posters, *Wesley* should deal with the issue, which he can't; because his God, Putin, looks bad on this.

    Why do the thugs (for AK, those who rant that AK doesn't publish his name) demand the real names of people, as an argument? It's not an argument. My complaint against Putin stands or falls on its own merits.

    Showing I'm a bigger man than you, *WM*, I admit that there is one single Russian Orthodox Church here in Vancouver.

    Meanwhile, the Putin Internet trolls scour the web grimly, determined to stop western attacks on The Dear Leader.

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  7. I hate to play I-told-folks-so, but;

    "The newspaper Kommersant reports that the Russian Foreign Intelligence Service (formerly part of the KGB) has invested 30 million roubles on "blog and social network intelligence" programs. (The roubles are)... invested in "mass distribution of messages in social networks with a view to the formation of public opinion."

    http://tinyurl.com/9y2o2md

    I guess they don't care that folks know...

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